Wednesday, 8 April 2020

He said, she said...

Excuses, Excuses | Family Matters"Please could someone explain why the signers on the tv mouth words but they don’t appear to be related to what is being said? Hope I haven’t offended anyone I only have moderate hearing loss and waiting to collect my HA’s which has been postponed due to Covid -19"

"British sign language is an independent language made up of hand gestures, facial expressions and body language. Sentence structure is different to English too."

The classic cop-out! What has that to do with pretending to lip-speak?  Less than 3% of ALL BSL translators are qualified lip-speakers. In reality, there are insufficient signs to cover a lot of daily declarations on UKTV regarding the virus, they simply do not exist.   

I was watching 20 minutes ago a BSL terp and the text was including 'plenary meetings' and 'scientific statistical differences' and explaining flow charts, death rates, why some areas fare better than others etc, and the BSL terp signed none of it in any detail.  'More dead, more meetings' that's it.

Lol, I'd defy a BSL terp to translate this so far... stick to words shorter than 8 in length :)

They could fingerspell but I am not sure that helps either.

Mouthing the words is a sop to the cultural stance, OK if you are trying to impress goldfish or those deaf who insist speech is an insult to the signer etc...  of course, mime adds nothing much in access terms for the lip-reader.  But for the captions, I wouldn't follow it myself, but at least with, I feel I am far more aware than the sign user is who are still asking very basic questions online about the lockdown after 3 weeks in.  

There are more Hindus, Polish and Urdu speakers than UK deaf, there is less access for them and none for the lip speaker.  Deaf need to be more grateful for that they have and TWO dedicated TV BSL programs quit with the whining.

There are claims no signed media access there?  I have never seen so much sign used as recently and of course, their charities and deaf TV media and NHS advice areas are pouring it out for them too.  If they still cannot follow that suggests issues with the sign itself or they aren't seeking it out.  

As a social tool with plenty of leeway between the deaf themselves, BSL looks good enough but take them out of that area real issues, so why is that? and with approved translators doing it?  Either the blame lies with hearing doing their thing or the terps being unable to effectively translate that or as we suspect, BSL isn't explanatory enough?  

Not fair comment, After all, most terps think in hearing terms first because they are hearing,  THEN try to adapt BSL to it (Apparently a classic error). Such errors are inevitable and response depends on WHO is using the terp? if it is an individual the terp has to adapt to what they believe the client will most easily follow, on TV you have to translate to everyone regardless of academic or signing ability.  As a result, the lesser academic/literate deaf will lose a LOT of detail they need unless they can read captions/subtitles also.  

Few BSL interpreters can switch from individual to mass explanations its a different skill set.

Once a technical term kicks in, terps start taking short cuts and break things down more simply, and to my mind that negates their point, to be fair instantaneous BSL translation has only a 40% success rate at best, and lip-reading 30-40% or near nil depending on the speaker or your own LR skills, or IF a lip-SPEAKER is there to follow, I haven't seen ANY yet.  

Because terps have to keep up with the spoken word, they get pushed for time so they cut corners.  

Most UK terps have NO specialist area of support, i.e. specialise in advanced English Translation, technical educational areas, legal or intensive health areas etc nor do lip-speakers.  There is an overall assumption they don't need it or, maybe the client would struggle with it.  Of course, the more simplistic you make it the less detail you get.

The devil really IS in the detail especially now as we all struggle to understand this pandemic and its effects as well as government responses. 

Online with these deaf signers they are asking each other to explain/clarify what they think they saw.  This mirrors the deaf clubs where the least able rely on the most able to explain, it's 'Chinese whispers' to some extent and not always reliable, in the end they settle for yes or no in regards to the query can I do this? rather than sit there get a full and lengthy explanation they maybe cannot follow anyway even IN BSL so are more able to exhibit real choice.   They follow the herd.

I do not believe the language argument, because their translators are not sticking to the script, if you ask why they don't the answer is pretty simple, just because deaf use BSL does not make them fluent or expert in it, that false assumption allows corners to get cut.  Familiarity then breeds communication contempt.

It depends on deaf ability (and their background educationally). 

Lol ATR blog suggested they go back to school, it wasn't welcomed and caused a shit storm on twitter.  They used the 'language and grammar' excuse there too and offered to string him up.

Really?

Deaf have since the BSL dictionary emerged made excuses for its shortcomings and say they use a different format, grammar etc, but we are talking here about their own translators NOT sticking to it, and for very good reason, no two deaf follow sign the same way, BSL hasn't a real norm and it's riddled with wannabe signing purists who say this way or that way or the highway stuff. I am surprised they are asking for signed help they are clearly struggling to FOLLOW it in their 'preferred' way, which isn't on the face of it, helping them to do that.

More BSL more sign but still struggling to follow? surely literacy is far more useful for them?

ATR tried that ooops...

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